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Present Points With The Qt Venture – From The Exterior Wanting In

Present Points With The Qt Venture – From The Exterior Wanting In

2023-04-20 13:51:23

I wish to begin with that Qt remains to be IMHO one of the best ways to develop C++ apps. This submit is not alleged to be a rant. That is for the choice maker at Qt. If in case you have any query about Qt be at liberty to affix our /r/QtFramework subreddit!

The Qt builders are great to work with, and each new Qt model makes it even higher, thanks! ????

My ache factors (no specific order):



Please, no extra jira ????

Qt at the moment makes use of a mixture of Jira, Gerrit, Mailing lists, cgit, a customized CI coin and inner paperwork which might be typically linked in points however not accessible for non Qt workers. For individuals who have used them for the final twenty years, this can work. It’s this bizarre state of it’s “adequate” so if what buttons to click on, when to ssh right into a distant gerrit, oh sure it’s important to use customized perl primarily based scripts simply to push issues. It’s bizarre how advanced a easy line of code change can change into. Due to chatGPT I’ve discovered the corresponding cognitive bias:

“It’s potential for one thing to seem like “adequate” from the attitude of people who find themselves already acquainted with it, however appear much less passable to those that should not. This phenomenon is usually referred to as the “curse of information.”

The curse of knowledge refers to the concept people who find themselves acquainted with a selected idea, follow, or piece of data might have issue understanding how another person who shouldn’t be acquainted with it’d view it. This will result in a scenario the place people who find themselves already “within the know” might understand one thing as adequate, whereas those that should not might view it as suboptimal and even unacceptable.

For instance, think about a gaggle of people who find themselves used to working with a selected software program program that has a considerably sophisticated interface. They may have change into proficient at utilizing it over time and should not see any issues with the interface. Nonetheless, if somebody who shouldn’t be acquainted with the software program tries to make use of it, they may discover the interface complicated or irritating. On this case, the group of people who find themselves acquainted with the software program may even see it as adequate, whereas the outsider sees it as problematic.

On the whole, it’s necessary to pay attention to the curse of information and to make an effort to think about how one thing may seem to people who find themselves not already acquainted with it. This might help make sure that practices, merchandise, or companies are designed in a method that’s accessible and intuitive to a wider vary of individuals.”

I’ve many small ache factors with the tooling, like no cell assist for a lot of the tooling. Jira typically is simply dangerous to work with, when even essentially the most basic items like textual content formatting. So my solution is something you already run yourself (internally) and lots of different tasks within the FOSS neighborhood: Arrange your individual public Gitlab occasion or use This could unify all present tooling and exchange it with a constant, well-known workflow for outdoor contributors. Sure, this might imply to ax a lot of your individual developed instruments like coin, however have a look at the intense aspect, you need to use the devs for different tasks.

Contributing and constructing


There`s obtained to be a greater method that this…

Let’s eliminate the submodules and make Qt a mono repo. Managing dependencies in C++ is difficult, however for instance placing the QtPDF module into the QWebEngine repo solely due to shared dependencies is bizarre (though I like the pragmatism). This could eliminate the Qt Submodule Replace bot. I suppose this might be possible with CMake, CMakePresets.json to solely construct a small a part of Qt without delay. Let’s at all times clone all code, however outline what we wish to compile in CMake. Why is the qt git repo still called Qt5?

Day by day builds


The place are my day by day snapshots?

We don’t want snapshots, however day by day Qt builds. I merely have no idea if a snapshot incorporates modifications that occur throughout the identical day, or I’ve to attend weeks for a brand new snapshot to check if the bugs I reported are fastened. I want to check all of my Qt app towards these nightly builds, so I can report issues the day they’re merged into Qt. Assist me, enable you.

Dependency administration

img is one of the best ways to browse vcpkg packages

Qt ought to create a vanilla c++ package deal and tooling supervisor like Rusts cargo for dependencies and instruments (and make semantic versioning necessary). That is wanted for the following proposals I’ve under. I will probably be fully advantageous with a carbon copy of npm that you just folks host and receives a commission for a similar method npm fees you for personal packages or for premium options like CVE scanning of dependencies, prebuild binaries and license checks. Make the software open supply with vanilla c++ (aka non Qt tasks), solely so it might probably change into the de facto commonplace. This will probably be free promoting and an extra income stream.



This doesn’t encourage confidence

Why is QtCreator nonetheless not utilizing QML for brand new code? Does the Qt Firm not have assured in it? Additionally another factors:

  1. Make extra issues json/toml/textual content settings primarily based as an alternative of UI primarily based, like duties.json in VSCode that permits customers to execute easy duties from the UI. The primary benefit is that it’ll work for each person that opens the tasks. Issues like the brand new CMakePresets.json are nice to eliminate the handbook equipment settings, that each developer needed to change. That is nonetheless so fragile and bug susceptible.
  2. Enable python primarily based plugins and make them obtainable through the above talked about dependency administration software. The present strategy to load qt plugins by compiling it for each platform shouldn’t be possible you probably have an thought a few good little helper plugin.
  3. Add reside reloading to qml tasks (No, the present QtCreator implementation shouldn’t be usable). That is the default creating expertise for internet tasks, and even Qt rivals like Flutter.
  4. Add a developer toolbar into the app itself. I’m serious about the identical developer instruments that internet builders have of their browser, with an inspector and reside modifications like altering the colour of a management. It has been 10 years and qml nonetheless has not shipped with the speedy prototyping promise. Making a change, compiling qml, beginning the app after which navigation into the precise location of the function one is creating to see the modifications shouldn’t be speedy prototyping. I wish to see modifications immediately. You even deprecated the one method we might have had the slightest type of speedy prototyping with the qml designer. The argument was that the designer was brittle as a result of it needed to assist totally different Qt/QML variations on the similar time. That is true, however you wouldn’t have this drawback you probably have the software I described above.

QML and QWidgets

It feels there may be an everlasting battle between customers that use QWidgets and customers that use qml. Qml is the brand new (greater than 10 years previous presently) shiny software that also lacks behind in lots of elements and QWidgets is “adequate” for many functions and are even extremely most popular by many due to the QML === JavaScript stigma. This isn’t solely seen locally, however in the way in which Qt itself creates its instruments. Let’s listing all instruments from Qt itself that use QWidgets

  • QLinguist
  • QtCreator – Let’s ignore the qml editor half that’s written in qml, nonetheless the overwhelming majority of latest code remains to be written in QWidgets. Even issues just like the welcome web page have been as soon as rewritten in qml after which changed once more with widgets as a result of again then qml was not mature sufficient.
  • QtInstallerFramework UI – The instruments that will be good for qml, however nonetheless it makes use of the deprecated QScript, and it cumbersome to work with.
  • …?

What number of Qt instruments use solely QML? I don’t know a single one. I do know Qt is in a tough place right here. We don’t wish to deprecate QWidgets as a result of my guess is, that also the overwhelming majority of apps are written in QWidgets. So qml can’t be the way forward for Qt. This precipitated me to have some hilarious experiences with groups within the final years after they began to develop their app in Qt however with QWidgets and QML on the similar time, as a result of qml nonetheless has the stigma of being cell solely and QWidget apps “are desktop solely”.

Write as soon as, deploy in every single place? NotLikeThis.jpg

Now we’ve got a combination oft two applied sciences which you could select, that each can do cross-platform apps, however each have benefits and downsides. So what do you inform folks to decide on?

pyside6 is one other instance. The quick start guide tells you to use QWidgets. For a brand new strategy to write Qt apps, this doesn’t make me assured that QML is the way forward for Qt.

Qt wants to begin utilizing its personal (qml primarily based) merchandise

I as soon as labored for a startup for suggestions referred to as stomt. Think about Twitter for suggestions the place each sentence begins both with “I like X as a result of” and “I want X would”. Then an exterior contractor who we requested how we might enhance our app stated the obvious factor no one considered: “How about you employ stomt, for stomt?” You already know that feeling when somebody tells you one thing so apparent, nevertheless it’s true?

My level right here is you’ll know what you want for those who use your individual product (like Mitch Curtis did with Slate). Develop any sort of app and promote it. I don’t know, create a cross-platform app like Microsoft Phrase. Then you’ll have to do all of the issues we prospects must cope with. What you want a TrayIcon, however it’s nonetheless within the QtQmlLabs modules, and it has been experimental for the final 10 years? Oh, you want an installer to ship your app, however Qt Installer Framework solely helps a bizarre JavaScript dialect? You get the concept.

Onboarding of upcomming Qt builders


Qt onboarding is simply an excessive amount of. I’ll say that every one of is a results of pushing one into shopping for a qt license. Don’t get me improper, I need the Qt firm to have many paying prospects as a result of everybody would revenue from that. This simply signifies that it’s intentionally complicated, so folks thought, they’ll use Qt freed from cost.

Probably the most questions we get in /r/QtFramework:

  1. Am I allowed to make use of Qt for my App/Startup/College mission?
  2. Ought to I exploit Widgets or QML? (Already answered above)

The reply to 1 is often: Sure, however… . Then it’ll observe with an enormous listing to bear in mind what you’re required to do. It makes issues sophisticated. Different frameworks should not (See present tendencies under).

pyside6 is an instance of fine onboarding, with a easy “pip set up pyside6” it already tells me every little thing that I can anticipate. No registration, no bullshit, only one command and you’re good to go.

Now I’ve to create an account, must log in simply to obtain Qt on all of our workstations? No, thanks, we merely switched to aqt for prebuild binaries. No different framework talked about under will drive (besides Unreal Engine and Unit3d AFAIK) you to do that.

See Also

Is the Qt Firm becomming one other Oracle?


People are angry ????

Through the years, the Qt Firm, as soon as extensively recognized for its dedication to open-source software program and the developer neighborhood, has steadily shifted its focus in direction of enterprise prospects. Firstly, the corporate has more and more targeted on income era, resulting in a stronger emphasis on enterprise purchasers. These purchasers usually have deeper pockets and are prepared to pay for premium assist and companies. Whereas it’s completely advantageous for an organization desirous to earn a living, it’s irritating that we would not have an choice for a extra versatile license. Consequently, the Qt Firm has began prioritizing their wants, typically on the expense of smaller purchasers and open-source fans.



3.6$ per developer/yr. How about flutters 0$/yr?

I’ve already stated it many instances on-line. The best way Qt desires to earn a living is an excessive amount of targeted in huge B2B model. There’s a common sentiment locally that the present pricing is dangerous for small companies. It seems like giving right into a lure when utilizing Qt for small enterprise. Let me quote myself:

I wish to use Qt. I wish to pay for Qt. I actually wish to use every little thing that Qt has to supply. The software program shouldn’t be the issue right here, solely the administration. I’m salty about this as a result of the Qt folks present us some actually nice software program that I can’t use due to this.

EU Digital Markets Act, will drive all gatekeeper (defines as all corporations with adequate market energy like Apple) to open up restricted working methods for different app shops and sideloading. It’s rumored that iOS 17 will introduce sideloading this summer season. This implies I can promote Qt apps on Apple the identical method as I do on Android. This can doubtlessly imply extra folks switching to LGPL model of Qt. However this isn’t what we would like (me included). We wish folks to pay a good worth for Qt.

My level is that Qt wants a greater pricing mannequin to remain related. I don’t wish to pay hundreds of {dollars} earlier than I even begin to ship my app. I need zero upfront value and offer you a share of my income, like EPIC Video games does with Unreal Engine.

Click on on that hyperlink, and permit us to make use of Qt for a similar worth.

  • A hard and fast worth with ALL of the modules and instruments, no restriction.
  • A hard and fast 5% share of the income with ALL of the modules and instruments, no restrictions. In the long run this can doubtlessly even generate extra income for you. These 5% are acceptable when in comparison with the 30% that shops like Steam or Apple take from you.

Method too typically Qt publicizes a shiny new software to play with (taking a look at you QtQuick3d or WebAssembly) that I’m not ready to make use of, solely due to licensing restrictions. This even pressured us to embed an online export of Godot into our Qt app to have 3d performance through the QWebEngine, as a result of we might not must cope with the Qt licensing shenanigans.

Google “finest cross platform framework” and the primary 6 outcomes don’t even point out Qt (let’s ignore the large advert area Qt purchased when googleing this precise question. I’ve put in adblocker on all of my units besides the iPad I used for looking this, lol).


Supply: statista. I do know that is cell, however nonetheless…

This listing doesn’t include a single C++ library. With the present development to a extra safer language and a common development that they merely stopped educating folks C++ in favor of python, csharp or java. Qt in its core is a C++ and a GUI library, however pyside6 has proven that we are able to write functions with higher languages than C++, though cell assist remains to be lacking to name it even an alternative choice to C++. IMHO Qt must assist much more languages (with cell assist), due to outdoors elements like sluggish improvement of C++ options. I don’t wish to sound like all different Rust evangelists, nevertheless it does want Rust assist/bindings to remain related. I for instance won’t use C++ for my subsequent mission, Rust ist simply on one other degree concerning language design, dependency administration and tooling.

Closing ideas

Would I begin a brand new mission with Qt? Perhaps? I don`t know. That is due to all the shenanigans the Qt Firm does, but additionally due to my rising dislike of the way in which C++ shouldn’t be getting any higher (this nonetheless 404s for me ????: Issues have modified and there are such a lot of okay sufficient cross platform frameworks, which might be 100% free. I’d use Flutter or React Native together with the core logic being written in Rust I suppose? ????

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